Tag Archives: city

Edinburgh’s Hogmanay: ‘Big Bang’ on 1 January 2013 #blogmanay

One element of Edinburgh’s Hogmanay festival is often a piece of street theatre designed to capture the audience’s imagination, provide a spectacle and some encourage some re-imagining of the city as a cultural, creative space. Some of Edinburgh’s most iconic thoroughfares have been used in the past, including the Royal Mile and George Street. Last night, 01/01/2013, an expectant crowd gathered in and around Buccleuch Place, in the university area of the Old Town near George Square. The air was still and dry, though cold, for a production from Plasticien Volants of France – a piece called Big Bang. There was plenty of humour in the show, the soundtrack went through different genres and we had occasional pieces of commentary to provide a little narrative and context. The biggest delights from the audience were when the flying ‘objects’ transformed themselves in mid air – the blobs in the first photo (body parts?) turned themselves inside out and became fish. Sometimes the French performers brought the balloons down to almost head level, and there were plenty of times when they engaged with each other to good effect.
This post is mainly for the photos that follow. They were all taken with an iPhone 5 and you can see from some that I was playing with the panorama feature, with mixed results! They are presented in chronological order and I’ve tried to tidy them up a bit. I think the phone did well in the low light conditions, handling the colours and contrast ok although failing to get particularly sharp focus at times.
Fortunately there’s greater focus in the work that goes into putting on such events. During the three days of Hogmanay the Torchlight Procession, Street Party, concerts, events and New Year’s Day activities set Edinburgh apart in what it’s trying to do by way of entertainment, shared experiences and destination promotion. Edinburgh’s a great place, made all the better for such high points through the year.

These images are also up on my Flickr page and you’ve welcome to use them should you wish, with attribution please: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dsrjarman/sets/72157632409335571/

#futr Day 2: FutureEverything, Manchester, May 2012


Day two of FutureEverything dawned after the long round trip to Preston where I was staying. I’ve written up the first day, over the course of about 1,500 words here. As for day two you can read the organisers’ own thoughts here. But to the business of the day…

It was an honour and privilege to hear Birgitta Jónsdóttir MP (Iceland) open the day’s proceedings. She can be found @birgittaj, her site is here, there’s also Wikipedia and you can see her Prezi presentation here. Birgitta led with a call to arms, that ‘The Future is You’ and we have the internet as a tool for profound social change. Much of her keynote address focused on democracy and a need to remake it, upgrade it and start defragmenting the system. But what is democracy? Is it enough to vote; what other forms of engagement exist and why do people choose to use them? What are politicians for and how do we deal with the powerful lobbyists who essentially write the all important first drafts of legislation? What to do with a system that supports the 1%…?

What we do is reclaim democracy, recognise that we are the many and they are the few, we are the system and our representatives should be us (not professional politicians). The challenge is to create a constitution written by the people, for the people, as they’ve done in Iceland (that’s right, they crowdsourced their constitution). Where there is a system error you defrag and zero the system: install a new operating system for society, politics and economics.

During times of crisis governments will seize the opportunity to install restrictive laws and to shore up their power and control – witness the erosion of online rights through ACTA, SOPA, PIPA and CISPA in the US (with implications for citizens around the world); see also the ‘EU Data Retention Directive’. But see also Birgitta successfully suing the US State Department, a victory won during the period of the conference. (This brought a cheer.) There’s a direct link between online rights and offline freedoms: if the former is eroded the latter will also suffer. So we need to engage, to co-create the world we want to live in and WAKE UP!


As if one role model wasn’t enough we were also treated to a talk from Juliana Rotich (@afromusing), the driving force behind Ushahidi.com. I’ve used this site as a reference point over the past couple of years when talking about crisis or ‘ambush’ events, whether it’s here on the blog or in class. I think much can be learnt from the ways crises are managed that can be applied to planned events – perhaps the biggest operational difference being that for the former all the effort and resource is deployed during and after the event, for the latter it’s during and beforehand. What can we learn about the tools that are used, the relationships between partners and stakeholders, the impact on host communities and their engagement in the process? Ushahidi is a mapping service that takes information from users through a wide variety of technologies and presents the results to help and tell the stories of citizens – often those caught up in natural disasters, state oppression and other crises. Juliana asked what would inspire us, as individuals, to contribute to a community? Maps help answer that question by providing context and demonstrating connections, brought alive through mobile technologies (SMS, apps, web, etc.) used by regular people to submit information. Ushahidi (meaning ‘witness’ in Swahili) was created in the furnace of post-election violence in Kenya, 2008 – but this was a situation that simply wasn’t being reflected in the mainstream media. 21st century technologies made possible the realisation that these problems weren’t localised and that citizens had the means by which to connect with each other.

The Ushahidi platform has been used in c20,000 places, from Kenya to Liberia, to the Christchurch and Japanese earthquakes. It’s also being deployed to map particular concerns and themes, from peak oil to opinions across a country to reports of violence against women. The software has been open sourced, and that’s at the heart of its popularity as a tool. It encourages contributions, both to its code and of course to each project that’s created wherever it may be around the world, aggregating data as it goes. Have a look at the way it’s being used to map the Occupy movement in the US: map.occupy.net. Likewise Al-Jazeera used it to reflect Ugandan responses to the Kony 2012 video that swept the world.

I had a question for Juliana: did she have examples of Ushahidi being used in conjunction with planned events, such as London 2012? She mentioned election coverage, but there was little in evidence of cultural events. Of course she then made the point that if I wanted it to be used to cover the London Olympics I had better grab the code and get on with it…

Kieran Kirkland spoke next, from his post at the Nominet Trust (‘social investment for social change’). He championed the ability, more likely the need, to support small scale innovation in order to make things happen: encouraging collaboration and engagement in ways that big organisations often fail to achieve. Big companies and big charities come with baggage – procedures, accountability mechanisms, numerous stakeholders, helpful board members and so on. But if a small organisation achieves a breakthrough, how is that scaled up? Here Kirkland took an interesting step by asking the audience what they had in mind when discussing the idea of increasing ‘scale’: the answers ranged from greater geographical spread, longer time periods (‘endurance’), great community engagement, the need for back end support and overall user growth. As a tactic it certainly opened up the discussion, which was then brought round to policy: if technology can enable growth in scale it can also act as the bridge between citizens and policy, through the collection and use of data. The potential is there for evidence based policy through that data.

A panel discussion was held to reflect upon the recent project ‘The Space’: thespace.org. Arts Council England and the BBC are behind this project, though it’s still a pilot at the moment and has no marketing budget – please head over to have a look and boost their pageviews. The panel included Ed Vaizey MP (Minister for Culture and Creative Industries) and folk from the other key stakeholders. The themes discussed included the perceived need to break down barriers between artistic genres, bringing stakeholders together in order that they might support the digital economy (that was Vaizey’s line). There was also recognition that digital output can lead to deeper engagement with a piece of work (or artist) by its existing fans, but not necessarily do much to expand an audience. From a technical perspective Mo McRoberts (BBC and @nevali) put the emphasis on The Space as a broadcaster in a box: a virtual do-everything piece of work in the same mould as Television Centre – a platform that one day will be a toolkit artists can pick up and reappropriate.

The third highlight of my day was of course the appearance of Dr Farida Vis (@flygirltwo) on the main stage, merely two days after presenting at an Edinburgh Napier research conference that I’ve covered here. Farida reflected on eight years of research into social media and how the data just keeps getting bigger – how do you deal with 2.6 million tweets, as provided by Twitter and The Guardian for the ‘Reading the Riots’ project? You make friends with computer scientists, who can build you tools and help you get stuck into the data, and you engage with journalists who want to tell these sorts of stories as well. (It’s apt that Farida shared a Q&A session with Bilal Randeree (@bilalr) from Al-Jazeera, who had been discussing the role of social media in the Arab Spring.) Did social media cause the riots across England in the summer of 2011? No, they didn’t. Social media ≠ social change, causality has not been proven. But it had a part to play and Dr Vis was happy to announce that the team behind the research had just received funding to make available the tools used to analyse and manage all those tweets and all those data. What’s more the work has recently won a data journalism award. Farida has posted her slides on Slideshare here, where they sit alongside other presentations on her profile page.

Finally, as the day drew to a close, Carlo Ratti of the MIT SENSEable City Laboratory discussed ‘Future Cities’. Now that cities are wired up to provide us with a lot of information we can start closing the loop on ‘sensing’ and ‘actuating’ through the use of data: gathering the data and doing something with it. As a society we can now track trash to watch what happens to it, where it goes, how long it takes to reach its final destination. We can capture the metadata in photographs to tell what’s happening at a given time and a given place. We can do stuff with that data: visualise it, share it, change behaviors.

We can make buildings with walls made of water.

Way back at the beginning of my day one post I made the point that FutureEverything is part conference (held at the excellent Museum Of Science and Industry) and part festival, with live performance taking place through the city. The visual arts exhibition rounded off my first day, at the bottom are some dimly photos that really don’t do it justice.

Top image: ‘Iceland’s open-door government’ / flickr.com/photos/opensourceway/6006269852/
Other images: all mine!


#futr Day 1: FutureEverything, Manchester, May 2012


It doesn’t become a conference to be too modest in its name, a little ambition goes a long way: future… everything! If it’s yet to happen this conference is interested. I’ve not been before, but I know of their work and didn’t dare pass up the chance to visit (exam marking would have to wait).

I’m going to split the event into a different blog posting for each day, though I suspect this will result in some long posts and I may abort the tactic ??? there’s a lot to write about.

The theme of the festival (sorry, conference) was introduced as ‘future people’, discussing the ways and means by which we mix online and offline connections and communities. This has relevance to my research, so my trip funding is hopefully justified and I’m very grateful to Edinburgh Napier for supporting me. What the event organisers have attempted to do this year is take the conference out into the city, to touch the people of Manchester and make it relevant to them. As luck would have it they decided to use social media to do so ??? this kicked off with an army of Little Clay Men that spread through the city the night before, which were then tweeted by commuters, workers and lots of people who encountered them on the streets and gave them stories of their own. Quite how you evaluate whether this project met the objectives of its producers I’m not sure, but as the little men live on in people’s homes and offices perhaps their story has barely begun…

Some links:

I first sat in on a presentation from Jennifer Jones (@jennifermjones) all about #media2012 and related projects, though I’ve written about that elsewhere and I’m sure I’ll do so again, so I won’t go into detail here. The morning also welcomed a panel discussion about Mass Observation and how material should be archived in the 21st century: what impact does editing have, can it be limited, what will people be interested in in the future (we don’t know) and what part should be played by museums, archives, the BBC and Mass Observation themselves? Both of these sessions touched on themes of power and access: the relative power of mainstream broadcasters and regular citizens to tell their stories, such as those wrapped up in the Olympics as the biggest media event the world will have ever seen. Who are the gatekeepers to these media and these archives, and thence to their audiences, and what chance do citizens have of gaining a foothold to access such resources? Museums and archives can only display and hold so much material, while Facebook and other social media organisations will not be quick to open up their treasures to archivists. Meanwhile the BBC has a pretty clear idea of what its role is during these Games (and there’s more on that to come on this blog).

Moritz Stefaner spoke about his work on data visualisations, a job he has styled to give himself the title ‘Truth and Beauty Operator’. So there. He talked us through the process of creating a couple of visualisations, which look stunning and were generally accessible as sources of information. As if to reaffirm a point made by Farida Vis at #enubs12 however, Stefaner also made the point that visualisations are good for the big patterns, but not so much the data points themselves… there are other ways of representing small data in greater clarity and detail.

So how does that link to the next talk, from Caitlin O’Riordan and Ben Gallop of the BBC who talked about their work covering the London Olympics? They are wrestling with the need to cover the big events, to provide the mass moments when we all (possibly) come together, as well as enabling us to curate our own Olympic experience. The point was made that the Games are regularly catalysts for advances in media technology and practice; this year some 2,500 hours of sporting action will be available online in glorious HD. Choice phrase of the day also came from this talk when Gallop proclaimed that ‘We’ll be telling the truth about the Games’ …it’s just as well that Jennifer Jones was present to make the point that #media2012 can help them in that endeavour.

Onwards, to building communities online around a real world cultural institution, which in Richard Ayers???s case is Manchester City Football Club (@richardayers). Where Man City is viewed as a brand, as with many a football club it???s one that you don???t have to persuade people to engage with ??? there???s a fanbase who want to know more about you, but the challenge now is about granting access. Ayers discussed the comparative success of providing behind the scenes video clips, which people loved seeing, against the poorly received ???bluffers??? guide??? to supporting the club ??? this didn???t go down at all well with the fans. So an open access approach is now informing the club???s strategy, one tailored to different groups of fans responding to differing degrees of detail and complexity. A digital journey was described that may start by ???liking??? the club on Facebook, then commenting on an existing post somewhere, moving on to tweeting about the club and over time engaging more and more deeply with the online community. Each person???s place within that community is shaped by their own level of interest and knowledge, alongside the level of acceptance granted by the rest of the community: how long are your comments shot down and your contributions dismissed before you???re accepted? This is the fans organizing themselves, much as they do within the stadium itself ??? perhaps starting their journey in the family section, moving round to the most vocal sections and onwards until they sit amongst fellow veterans talking about the good/bad old days.

The discussion moved on to ask which cultural forms tend to generate tribal tendencies, from sports teams to film genres and activities such as food blogging. Where do these groups sit within the wider society and what are the implications for resource allocation to serve these sub-groups? What happens when that takes place alongside a desire to reach new markets, as Man City are trying to do in a number of places around the world? It???s partly about meeting expectations and wholly to do with being culturally sensitive, which goes back to recognising the demands of different groups of fans and what they???re after from a modern football club. Ayers finished his talk by pointing out that the executives who are funding and enabling the club???s digital investment were once players out on the pitch??? it has taken a cultural shift for some to accept digital methods and become a ???hybrid organisation???.

To round off my first day at FutureEverything I greatly enjoyed the talk by Juha van???t Zelfde on ???The City and The City???. At its heart was the idea that we are recreating ideas of what cities mean to us as citizens, inhabitants, networked communities and people figuring out how to handle shifts in what notions of private and public actions mean. Juha is behind organisations such as Non-fiction (???office for cultural innovation???) and VURB (???policy and design research concerning urban computational systems???). The talk was partly a personal reflection, whether it be the evolution of the online availability of music or the rise of geolocation on the web through smartphones. It was also a recognition that ???with all these technologies the notion of what my city is has changed??? ???we don???t lose touch with people simply because they move away from our city, instead technologies allow us to bring their experiences into our own world ??? their new home city becomes part of our lives and we exist in numerous places. To quote a couple of phrases: ???a new kind of spatiality is senseable???, because we live in ???the continuous partial everywhere???.

Juha asked what this means for the infrastructure of our cities, and what would we do now if we were to build our cities from scratch. What are the implications for individual objects, and what does it mean for whole societies and governments operating at a macro level? Do we become part of what???s happening elsewhere because of our connections and what does that mean if we want to play a part in the governance and management of those locations? Perhaps our very notions of what a ???city??? is have to change ??? ???there is another city: an informational one??? you are the city???.

After 1,400 words on just a single day???s activity I don???t want to stretch this post out any longer in the search for connections between these speaker and my own work. Nevertheless it was pretty clear that the there are plenty of people working on the links between technology, community, networks, cultural identity, governance and the lived experience. If ever I???m to find a conference/festival that brings together real life shared experiences and the virtual community this would surely be it, and yet to what extent did the people in the room have an attachment to the event beyond the short term coming together of people and ideas? Did they have a sense of ownership over it the same way cultural festivals gather an army of supporters? Just how important were the FutureEverything coffee breaks in forging a community spirit, or were they all about old fashioned networking and working out where to eat before going to see Metropolis?


Top image: ‘Deirdre_BlueOrange_Futr’ / flickr.com/photos/stuartchilds/6998237316 [This is the FutureEverything logo.]
Bottom image: @jennifermjones discusses London 2012 as a media spectacle [Taken by me.]

December catch-up: creativity applied conference (RSA, ICC, Creative Scotland, NESTA and others)

In the short lull between teaching and marking, when I should be working directly on my PhD research, I have a chance to write up some notes from a conference I attended on 21 November 2011: Adding Value – Creativity Applied. Held at the Royal College of Physicians Edinburgh we heard from a  wide range of speakers, each reflecting on creativity and primarily in a Scottish context. Organisational thanks to the Royal Society of Arts MCICH and Institute for Capitalising on Creativity.

Prof Georgina Follett (University of Dundee) spoke about the ‘Knowledge Exchange Hub: Design in Action’ that she heads up. It doesn’t appear to have its own site just yet… I’m sure that’s on its way. The agenda they’re following is to contribute to, perhaps help direct, a design-led network across the country, seeking to embed design and designers at the start of projects rather than calling them in for a lick of paint at the end. The KEHDIA project will adopt a sandpit approach, granting flexibility to contributors and hopefully facilitating connections and collaborations. This also a chance to free up intellectual property currently locked away in universities and ‘stuck in log jams’.

Jeremy Myerson’s talk, from the RCA in London, was less about the networks and more about designers. He emphasised that to a designer ‘a good problem is a gift’, something to be solved and improved. A nice quote was that designers have spent too much time thinking about their own problems, and should focus more on others. Reference was made to ‘The Problem Comes First’, an exhibition of work driven by the needs of users (such as paramedics). Time was spent looking at the globalising process of sending both the design and delivery of such ideas off-shore, meaning that designers increasingly need to pitch themselves as researchers as well. Towards the end of the talk Myerson discussed the relationship between designers and users, the advent of anthropometrics and his current drive to promote design by users. There are clear parallels here with events and festivals that are open to involvement from host communities and associated interest groups: what works for them and what are they interested in?

Roanne Dodds, from Mission, Models, Money, brought the focus onto the role of artists in creative ecosystems. She drew from work with Watershed in Bristol and recent work done by the International Futures Forum into that venue’s attitude towards innovation. What is needed to nurture these creative ecosystems? What works in particular environments? How can we break free from a society that only recognises a money economy: what of other economies, those which deal in other currencies, such as an economy of culture which uses a ‘currency of meaning’? …at the heart of such questions is the issue of value and the process of valuing creative work: 20th century methods of valuing work focus too much on financial methods. Networks and ecosystems were to the fore in this talk and are a driving motivation behind their work.

Rob Woodward, of STV and NESTA, talked about the latter’s creation in 1998 and its mission to ‘bring ideas to life and make innovation happen’. Available in the foyer were copies of their November 2010 report into ‘Creative clusters and innovation’. Woodward raised the problem of getting the creative sector to speak with one voice – although his broad definition of what constituted the creative sector made others question the likelihood, or worth, of attempting this. The problem however is the difficulty government sometimes has with relating to the sector as a result. Scotland received a good write-up from Woodward, with arts organisations north of the border seen as relatively effective in providing leadership to the overall economy in areas such as innovation: a multiplier effect for the whole economy. Edinburgh has been identified by NESTA as one of seven ‘creative hotspots’: hosting clusters of innovation that feed into the surrounding region. The potential now exists to exploit these clusters and try new ideas, such as ‘creative credits’ in Manchester. Woodward closed by emphasising that policy makers should provide the environment for such activity and ways to share knowledge.

Andrew Dixon, from Creative Scotland, drew on his time at NewcastleGateshead to talk about ‘packaging creativity’. Some of this talk reflected his lecture of this time last year. Speaking as perhaps the key public sector representative in the room Dixon emphasised the partnership approach, investment over grant funding, the acceptance of artistic creativity as a symbol of growing confidence and seeking to tap into existing expertise. The ten year aspirations of CS were focused on: Scotland as a festival nation; high levels of participation; recognition as a creative nation. Towards the end of his talk Dixon highlighted the work of Richard Florida, author of ‘Cities and the Creative Class’.

Overall this was a packed afternoon’s work, which attracted an engaged and well connected audience. The themes of networks, cities, creativity, innovation and partnerships were present throughout, some of it with tangible research behind it while other contributions were comparatively conceptual and anecdotal. This reflects the fluid nature of such discussions and the importance of bringing people together to provide this mix – this was a creative meta network event therefore, discussing networks and creativity.


#SMWglasgow Social media, research, academia and industry

A week ago, while Edinburgh was enjoying one of its local holidays, I took the express train to Glasgow – partly for an Apple Store pilgrimage, partly to attend Jillian Ney’s (@jillneyblog here) session as part of Social Media Week. Glasgow was one of twelve cities to host events as part of this annual global project, the other European cities were Berlin, Milan and Moscow. As is the way of many events these days you can register your own event and join the official programme: part Fringe festival model, part unconference.

Jillian’s official blurb reads…

This event is designed to discuss the opportunities and issues in academically researching social media, and to provide a platform for fostering new research partnerships. The event is aimed at industry practitioners and final year, masters, PhD students, and researchers who are interested in driving forward valuable social media research.

That link between academia and industry is important in some of the arguments put forward:
  • Research based on social media is gaining credibility in the academic community.
  • Bringing academic rigour together with industry data and expertise can foster this.
  • There is currently a lack of academic literature which explores and develops these themes.
  • Also, there are a range of terms with competing and overlapping meanings: social media, Web 2.0, social content and so on.
  • There are opportunities and risks associated with borrowing theory from other fields, leaving ideas relatively untested for your purposes.
  • ‘The industry’ is often keen to get involved in academic research, but will come with its own agenda(s) and can quickly lose interest.

We were also joined by Prof Alan Wilson of University of Strathclyde Business School, who Jillian is working with. He focused on:
  • Establishing your perspective, for the purposes of your research: the user/consumer, or the corporate/organisation/industry side. What is it that each side is looking for? Do they really know what they’re doing?
  • Conference topics are increasingly focusing on:
    • trust – in the relationship between user and provider, between users and so on.
    • motivation – of all parties to get involved, share ideas and content, etc.
    • ethics – what sort of ethical considerations should we be having when researching social media content, using it in ways that weren’t intended by the creator?

The discussion developed from there, reflecting on the risk of researchers being exploited by industry partners, or taken off track by competing demands on their time. Likewise as the range of tools grows to extract social media content how to separate the ‘wheat from the chaff’ (or even identify which is which). The usual mantra applies that researchers need to justify just about every decision they make.

The event was held at the KILTR HUB, a space down a lane, opposite Stereo (and I believe managed by them and their partners). One result of my trip was signing up to KILTR, Scotland’s own social network. It’s all about the connections after all.

(I have pinched the image below from a Facebook event and I hope I don’t get into trouble for this. Also below is the reference list from my PhD proposal.)


Let me count the ways.

A late night in the offing in SW19 tonight: Andy Murray slugging it out under the roof at Wimbledon as the rain falls elsewhere. It wasn’t like that last night as I strolled along the South Bank under a crimson sunset, glinting off the London Eye and the Palace of Westminster.

This quick list is little more than information masquerading as literature, for these are some of the things I did:

  • British Museum: when I was very young I once asked my mum why there was so little of Britain in the British Museum – little has changed in two and a half decades. This was my first visit in a while though and I’m a fan of the central courtyard, which is a very large space indeed. The temporary exhibition on Australian art was good and took me back to some of the galleries I visited in Australia – I like a Sydney Nolan from time to time. The Parthenon Sculptures are still there, despite my measured analysis as an undergrad that they should head back to Greece. The rest passed in a blur, the continents and the centuries passing in as many paces as I tripped through the civilisations.
  • Apple Store Covent Garden: the biggest such store in the world I believe, a temple to the brand and the products. And what do you know, it’s a very pleasant place to spend a little time and a lot of money.
  • National GalleryCardinal Richelieu‘s eminence… say no more.
  • Eli Pariser at The RSA: it’s only a few days since I wrote about Pariser’s work on the ‘filter bubble’, so quite a fluke that my day in London coincided with his talk at RSA House. The material had developed a little since his TED talk, but the basic premise remains and there seems to be greater appreciation of the consequences it heralds. A treat however: this lunchtime talk was hosted by Aleks Krotoski, who sat three seats along from me when she wasn’t grilling the speaker on stage.
  • Scotch Malt Whisky Society, London: when in London why not call in on a society you’re a member of? Lovely stuff.
  • E4 Udderbelly: …where I spent a very pleasant hour with my friend, the general manager. Just as I used to get mighty confused when visiting the Famous Spiegeltent in foreign cities so it is with the purple cow: current residing near the South Bank Centre. (And to think Sarah’s first festival job was selling tickets for Jo, Laura and I at the Bedlam Theatre in 1998.)

London remains a city that will strip your wallet as soon as welcome you to its institutions and winding streets. But it’s a fine place to be… right down to running for the last train.








The Net Works ??? 100% Open


As I’ve always said, this blog is written largely for me. A place to record thoughts, experiences and progress. But it’s also where I keep useful links with a little comment as well: a more engaging Delicious perhaps. So here’s a link, tucked under the image above, to a Roland Harwood (@rolandharwood) post on networks. My comment is to suggest that I read it again the future and if I encourage others to have a look as well that’s all fine by me.